Skip Happens Podcast - Every Boot Has a Story! Direct from your favorite country artist!

22 till there's none - One conversation can interrupt a suicide—and a community can carry someone to safety

• Skip Clark

Share episode

Send us a text

Support the show

Thanks for listening! Follow us at youtube.com/c/skiphappens

SPEAKER_01:

Good morning and welcome to the community connection. My name's Skip Clark. Uh another uh very interesting uh show for you this morning for the next 20 to 30 minutes. Uh we're going to be talking to Scott Cox, who is the founder director of 22 Until There's None. And uh first of all, I just want to say good morning, Scott. Thank you for being here. Good morning. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. Scott, uh, let's talk about what this is all about. Uh a little bit about your background and what led you to found uh 22 until there's none.

SPEAKER_00:

So I served 10 years in the military, um, got out. Uh I also went to Iraq in 2003, came home in 2004, had PTSD, but didn't know it. Uh so in November of 04, when my ex-wife said, Hey, you need to get help, or we're over, uh, I went and got help, found out I had PTSD. So um our marriage fizzled out from there. Um, we ended up uh uh separating and getting divorced. I was homeless for a short time. Uh during that time I tried to commit suicide twice and then um went into inpatient uh to Samaritan, got some treatment, put me on some meds, and uh I was pretty uh stable from there. Then a couple years later, I ended up having my uh third attempt. So uh I ended up uh deciding, you know, what can I do to make myself whole? Uh so I ended up moving to Syracuse in 2012, I believe it was, and uh putted around with a bunch of different veterans organizations in the area, and then I was still missing something. So I was like, all right, I'm gonna start 22 until there's none. So I grabbed a bunch of people, said, Hey, would you guys be interested in being part of the board? Were these people that you served with or these are just uh like my girlfriend, for example, is one of them. She's she's on it. Um a couple other people. We have uh several veterans on the board, we have uh several civilians on the board, we have a couple first responders, former first responders on the board as well. So um, so we've been around for about four years, five years officially, but uh on paper as a nonprofit, it's been a year and a half, almost two years. Um during that time, we've saved 10 veterans from suicide. Um we go out, we do public engagements and stuff like that uh to raise awareness for suicide prevention um and the need for what we do. Um we have to be very careful what we do because there's a lot of um medical stuff that we can't do. But we will go out in a crisis and we will help these veterans and first responders that need to help immediately to get them to an inpatient, uh not inpatient, but uh to somebody in emergency status that can help them.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. And I want to talk about that here in a little bit, but if we could back up just just a little bit, uh when you talk about finding out that you had PTSD. What are the symptoms? What was going on? I I know you know there were obviously there was a lot because your marriage broke up because of that. So what were the symptoms though?

SPEAKER_00:

If somebody that doesn't know So uh PTSD, um back during World War II, how how PTSD came about was World War II, it was called Shell Shock. So the World War II vets would go to the VFWs, American Legions, drink, smoke, and they would get, in a way, therapy by just being around other veterans and talking some of their issues out. Um as time grew on that name Shell Shock changed to PTSD. So um some of those symptoms are uh depression, anxiety, um, withdrawing from people, uh society, um anger. Maybe just not caring about anything, worthlessness, you know, uh or hopelessness. Um so those are some of the symptoms. There's a lot more, but those are some of them. Um and you don't have to have all of them to have PTSD. Uh I'm not a shrink, I'm not medically certified or anything. But if you see somebody exhibiting those symptoms, especially somebody who's coming back from a foreign soil, um, that's uh those are clues that uh something's not right. What branch? I was I was in the army. Army. What did you do? So I ended up hell holding three MOSs. All right, explain that. So my first one when I first joined, I was what was called a fabric repair specialist. I sewed tents, parachutes, uh stuff like that. Um I didn't like it. Wasn't very I wouldn't be able to hem a pair of pants. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01:

I go to my mother-in-law for that.

SPEAKER_00:

I still can't have them now. So then my uh second MOS was is a was a truck driver. So uh we reclassed uh to become a truck driver, and then when I got stationed at Fort Drum, um we were put in an engineer company. So you were part of the 10th Mountain? Correct. Nice. Um so we ended up doing um getting crossed over uh to be able to do engineer equipment. So we're sitting in, I loved it because when we were in Iraq, I got to go on the airfield. We were we had to fix, we had to completely break it down to nothing and uh rebuild it to an airfield, and I'm on a dozer out there freaking ripping this concrete up, and it was just awesome. It was a really good experience.

SPEAKER_01:

Do you feel safe? I mean, you're like on a dozer in the middle of an airport, it's like you're in a wide open spot, and who knows what's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00:

You never knew. Yeah, uh you know, rockets and mortars came in all the time, but you just never knew.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Was there a uh Scott Cox is who I'm talking to right now. He is the uh director and founder of uh 22 Until There's None. Was there a particular moment or experience that really inspired you to take action on veteran suicide awareness?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. So um I told this uh I love telling the story because um this is the first person I ever saved, and you never forget, you'll never forget that person uh that you saved. So anyway, I ended up um was at a veteran resource fair that we were hosting with um one of our uh local um politicians and a local uh organization, and I was sitting there at a table and I had all this stuff out there, just you know, I had wasn't really part of our organization, it was just uh a veterans organization in general. So this guy comes in, he's got a 10th mountain patch on his um polo. So I was like, hey, are you 10th Mountain? He goes, Yeah. I said, uh um, when you get done, come back and let's talk for a little bit. So uh he went around the room, came back, he sat down next to me at the table, and um got him a bottle of water, and within 30 minutes of having a conversation with him, I knew everything about him, uh, what he was going through, uh, how suicide was uh uh always in his mind, and he was getting discharged from the army and he was moving to EriePA. So um I he had my card, had my number, everything, and I said, listen, I said, I'm always here for you no matter what. And um he goes, I appreciate that. So uh fast forward a month later, I get a text message out of blue from him. He goes, the conversation that you had with me saved my life. And that was like give me goosebumps immediately.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, it's giving me the goosebumps right now. Wow, how do you hold it together doing that? I mean, seriously. I mean, we're all grown men, but how do you hold it together?

SPEAKER_00:

It's tough sometimes. Um it's not easy because you're dealing with somebody's future, yeah. Um, and you just don't know if things are gonna go wrong. Uh it's about uh picking your words wisely to under make sure that they understand they they do that you understand what they're going through, but also you know, being stern with them and saying, hey, look, you know, making this decision is a permanent end to a temporary uh problem, you know, and those temporary problems we can help you with. We can find resources to help you. Um you know, the hardest part is dealing when there's with kids, you know, there's no having kids involved. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Where did you um come up with 22 until there's none? What's like the 22 must mean something?

SPEAKER_00:

So good question. 22. Um, if you look at all the studies that have been put out by the VA and uh the National Suicide Uh Prevention Um Coalition and stuff like that. 22 is the average number of veterans that commit suicide per day. Um, the other factor is also uh for first responders is 17 to 20 first responders commit suicide per month. So what we did is we kept the 22 because it already resonates with everybody. And we always tell I tell people those facts, and that's what they are. Um right now the number according to the VA is 17 veterans uh per day commit suicide. So the number's down um a little bit, which is great. Um still too many. It is one is too many. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01:

Should be none, but go ahead. Sorry. I'm also it's like wow, you know. Um this is a very tough subject to talk about. And I give you credit for coming in here and doing that. But uh, for those hearing about 22 until there's none for the first time, how would you describe the mission and the purpose of your organization?

SPEAKER_00:

So our mission is, and I'm glad you asked that question because I was uh actually thinking about how I could better define it uh before I got here. Um, so our main focus is veterans, military, and first responders to help that community. Uh what if whatever resources we're able to give them uh to be there in their time of need. Uh, we do not turn anybody away. So if somebody off the street comes to us and says, hey, look, and they have no affiliation, uh, we will get them to the resources that they need and hand off, give them what's called a warm handoff instead of just here's a number, call it or whatever. Um, because that's not what we're about. Uh so that's our main mission is to ensure that our first responders, whether they're homeless or um our veterans are homeless, we can get them the resources that they need.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, what are some of the core programs, services, or the initiatives you provide for veterans, first responders, their families? What are some of those?

SPEAKER_00:

So the first one that we offer is uh our motto, you never have to walk alone. So, with that being said, you call me, you text me, or somebody refers you to me uh or this organization. Uh, we reach out to you within hours, uh, if not immediately. Um, some places they have a time frame, like one or two days. We do it immediately because we understand the fur, you know, there's a there's a window of opportunity to get capture that person, and we have limited time to work with that. So um what we do is from start to finish, we walk with them. So uh a couple of the veterans that we've helped, we walk them to the VA. We stay with them while they're getting evaluated by uh mental health professionals. Um, some of us have asked us to stay in a room with them so they feel that there's somebody on their side. Some have asked us to step out. That's totally up to them and we don't push either way. Um, but once they're either uh placed in inpatient or they're referred to outpatient, uh the treatment, our um services don't stop. We stay with them, we monitor them. Once they are discharged uh from uh the facility, we still walk with them. Uh we'll take them, go get them to something to eat. Um we'll take them to if they need you know food, we'll go get them food, whatever the case might be to help them de uh to get more space from the time that they were uh thinking they were suicidal to the time you know uh they actually re-enter the home or uh whatever. So that's one of the things that we do. Uh and it's worked very efficiently uh with the time that we've saved. Um the other thing is is we have a grant for first responders.

SPEAKER_01:

I was gonna ask about a grant if there was any of that available to what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00:

So we do a lot of fundraising on our own right now. We have we don't ref receive any federal funding yet. We're still trying to get grants as they come available. Um, but being new, um we don't really have we haven't worked with a grant writer. But anyway, we have a grant that we started, it's called a strength and service grant. Um, what we will do is for first responders and for veterans and the military, even though they got health care, um, we will work with them to get them the treatment that they need for at least the first two um uh therapy sessions. So they can so then that way they have no out-of-pocket costs, whether we pay their deductible or we pay the full monthly of what the first two expenses are, uh, so then that way they are getting the treatment because a lot of people don't know this. Um, but with first responders, uh volunteers in particular, there's really not a mental health um service that really helps them. Really? Um, so if they go to a mass casualty incident and then they bring in the full Monty, but then once that the therapist, doctor, and all and are gone, there's nothing there for those uh that are there to be helped. So that's where we try to step in.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow. Um veteran suicide. It's heartbreaking. It's a heartbreaking crisis from your perspective. What are some of the biggest challenges that veterans face when returning back to civilian life? I mean, you did it. You're in for 10 years, you had to come back home and didn't go as planned. Um, but uh what are some of those challenges? Just everything we had talked about?

SPEAKER_00:

Just it's it's a multitude, it's not just one thing. Um when I deployed and then came home, they always told you when you come home, you're gonna be in a reintegration period where they kind of teach you to relearn to be a civilian again. Well, that didn't really happen. Uh we were thrown back into our families where now mom and uh or the wife or the spouse, I should say, um, was taking care of all the bills, the house, the kids, this and that, and everything else. Now suddenly here comes the soldier, if you will, uh, back into it and hadn't just started to take stuff back over, like it was not he would never left. So you find that you know uh that was part of the issue. Um, you have the issue access to health care, uh, the stigma. Um, and that's the biggest one of the biggest things that you could find is people don't want to be labeled as somebody who has a mental health problem uh because they're afraid of their job, uh, their status with their friends or family and stuff like that. Your mental health care is your mental health care, it's private. Um I'm open about mine because I'm a you know I'm a pretty decent sized guy, and people look at me and go, I can't believe you had issues.

SPEAKER_01:

You drive a pretty decent sized truck, too. So I'm just saying, when he pulled into the parking lot this morning early, um, it's like, who's this dude? Number one, he got out of the truck, and I felt like a midget, even though I'm not, like I was short and skinny. And this dude gets out and he's got a truck that's just super huge, and but you have it decorated for your purpose, which is really cool. I know I see the decals, and if you see it out and about, you know, just give them a took, give them a wave, and say thank you. Thank you for your service and all that you've done. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00:

We tell we tell people hey, if you see us out and about, take a picture of it, put it on our Facebook page. Let us know people you've seen us, you know, because that's uh knowledge's power and sharing is power too. 100%.

SPEAKER_01:

100%. What partnerships, talking about that, partnerships, community uh connections, and local resources have been most important to your mission.

SPEAKER_00:

So we've been working with uh St. Joe's crisis team. Okay. Um Nicole over there has been really great. She's come to a couple of our events and we've gone to a couple of hers. Um, because if we can't, if it's something that we can't handle, uh we go to her, we we call her up and say, hey, look, I got an issue uh and I need to hand this off to you. And so their response has been really cool. Um we work a lot more with the VA in the outpatient clinics um in the um Onadaga County area and the counties surrounding Onadaga County. Gotcha. Uh we do cover all of New York State, but we're so small right now that we can't really go all of New York. So we picked and you know to stay locally. Step at a time. But we will go wherever somebody calls in a crisis, we will go there if we can make it there. Um, so yeah, so the VA has been really good. We work with the homeless team, uh, we work with mental health, uh, we work with the primary care team as well, um, of that individual um and the ER as well.

SPEAKER_01:

So how can uh communities right here in our area get more involved in supporting the veterans through your organization?

SPEAKER_00:

So I know it's like uh everybody says it's the same cliche, you know, donations are the biggest thing. They are, they are, um, especially when it comes to what what what we what what we do, but on the same token, it's also volunteering. You know, we could always use volunteers for events, uh, we could always use more members of the organization that want to come in and be a part of the organization, whether they're in the board, uh excuse me, on the board or uh just a member in general, um, because you're gonna find out that that's what where we where we do things is handled right there. And then events that we go out, sometimes we don't have enough people to cover multiple events. So that those are the two biggest things. But the biggest thing and the one of the biggest things that I could say next to donations is gonna be um if you know somebody who is uh struggling, refer them, call us, call, have them call us because for every veteran that we do help or first responder, there's two or three veterans or first responders we we have not touched.

SPEAKER_01:

Are there those that are afraid to step up? Those that keep it in the back of their mind um that will not go and get help just because they maybe they feel I don't need it, but they need it. Is that the right thing to say? I don't, you know what I'm trying to get across.

SPEAKER_00:

No, absolutely. You know, um when I first um got out, the VA wasn't in Laudertown per se. They had a clinic, but it wasn't the greatest. So I was one of those people who fell through the cracks. Um, a lot of people now where even though there's health care or um what have you in place, they're worried about the stigma. They're worried about, you know, how do I handle this? You know, um, and one of the things that I would really, really push is if you're afraid to have that conversation with somebody, call somebody, call 988, call us, reach out to medical healthcare providers. Um, because once you have that conversation, you're not putting a seed in somebody's head that they're gonna kill themselves. It's already there, and it's not gonna change the size of it. So it's there. Don't be afraid.

SPEAKER_01:

What are some of the biggest misconceptions? Um, uh pretty much everything is uh right out there. I mean, it's about veteran mental health, suicide prevention, uh, any of that misconceptions that you like to clear up. I mean, I'm seeing you face to face here. I this is just makes me want to go, yeah, brother, I'm there for you. I have never served, you have, but what can I do to help you? That's right, you know.

SPEAKER_00:

So some of the biggest misconceptions uh is people feel that you know, based upon you what you look like, you you can't hurt, you can't have mental issues. And just because you have a um a mental health issue or you're suicidal or whatever doesn't mean you're a bad person. You know, life hand gives everybody different lemons. And sometimes those lemons are big, sometimes they're small. And what you do with those lemons is gonna depend on how how you leave your legacy. And so, you know, leaving a permanent solution to a temporary issue, you know, how's your family gonna react to that? Because say you got little kids, and no, and then all of a sudden now mom or dad's not there. Uh, they got it, you have to live, they they have to live with that the rest of their lives. And so reach out because that's what uh this is all about.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, it's raising awareness. We're chatting with Scott Cox, who is the founder and director of 22 Until There's None. Where do you see the organization in the next five years?

SPEAKER_00:

I see this organization going uh bigger. Uh I won't I don't want to use the word exponentially, but it's gonna be bigger than what it is. Uh whether we expand our services, we double the manpower that we have, uh, whatever the case might be. Uh, you know, we tote our hat on how many people we saved. You know, we have not had it go the other way yet. Uh, but we want to keep it that way. But the biggest thing is making sure that we're being engaged in the public. We're continuing to push the mission of suicide prevention. Uh, because suicide prevention isn't just a one-person job, it's everybody's business. Because if you if you a lot of people will be like, well, I missed the signs, and all of a sudden now they're gone. All the cues are in place all the way up to that point. And then they're like, Well, I didn't know he was suicidal, and so now he's gone. It's too late.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep. Way too late. Uh, if there's somebody listening right now and they feel inspired to help you out, Scott, what's the best way to get involved? Is it donations, volunteering, spreading the word? I know you mentioned donations, you mentioned volunteering, volunteering. Uh, but is there any other way? Just help spread the word.

SPEAKER_00:

Keep spreading the word that we're here for you. Um, we do what we do because of you. Um, we love working with the local um um radio stations, news outlets, stuff like that to get the our message out, but also to build that partnership with them as well. Because um, you know, suicide month just ended, suicide prevention awareness month that just ended. But just because it ended doesn't mean that suicide goes away. Um it's there every day.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Wow. Uh Scott, if you don't mind me asking, I'm sure you still have certain tough days. Right. A lot goes through your mind. Oh, what keeps you motivated to continue this mission? Just knowing what you've done?

SPEAKER_00:

So I look at I have an eight-year-old and a 12-year-old, and I'm gonna uh bounce on that just for a second if I could. Um I went out and I did uh a watchfire speech uh for our organization in Fulton. Never once thought about my children hearing this conversation. And my 12-year-old heard me um heard my speech. He looked up at my girlfriend and he goes, You mean to tell me I almost didn't have a dad? That right there kept me going. Uh that was more of a recent one. But that, you know, my children are my my um are your legacy. And um I want them to look when I'm gone to say, Dad, I want to continue this for you and make things right. So, and when my little boy said that to uh my girlfriend, I I I had to go over and talk to him. I never once thought about um my kids being in a room when I had that conversation.

SPEAKER_01:

If you don't mind me asking, how was that when you talked to him? I'm just gonna tell you, I'd be balling my eyes out.

SPEAKER_00:

I teared up uh really good, uh, to be honest with you. And I went over and I asked him, I said, Do you want to talk about anything? And uh I said, You heard my speech. Then he said you made a couple comments. Would you like to talk about it? And he said, I'm okay, Dad. I'm okay. He said, Can I go watch the fire? So to him, I guess it just rolled right off. But to me it did, but it didn't.

SPEAKER_01:

I'll be I mean, I've watched my kids grow up, uh, they're all adults now, but still knowing they heard that, they know that it's in their mind, and uh and that's one of the things that I tell them.

SPEAKER_00:

I love you forever. I am not mentally like uh I'm not a therapist or social worker or doctor or anything. But we know our kids. And the one thing I told my kids is listen, if you're having a bad day at school and you're thinking about other things, come talk to me.

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00:

And he's like, I will. And my my eight-year-old, uh, my eight-year-old, well, he's he's just yeah, he's that he'll get there.

SPEAKER_01:

It's all about the age. Um so again, how can people connect with the organization? They know somebody that needs help, or how can you know they want to connect themselves, or maybe there's uh a local um uh somebody locally that wants to get involved with the organization. How can they connect with you? Find out more about 22 until there's none.

SPEAKER_00:

So we have a website, um, it's 22ontiles none.net. Okay, and uh all our contact information is on there. Well, my contact information. And so uh you can email me, you can text me, you can call me if you need help or if you want to help out. Um, if you're looking for more information or you want us to come to an event, stuff like that, um, send us an email so we can get it uh sorted out to figure out what if we have the staffing to build, including first responders, right?

SPEAKER_01:

So with all our fire companies in the area, uh the police departments, uh so on and so forth. Just it's it's not only veterans.

SPEAKER_00:

And I know we touched on that before, but and that's I used to be a first responder for 10 years. I was in for I was a captain with the uh Calcium Fire Department for 10 years. Chief of Fairmount. And I'm like, I'm going, this is great. You know, I you know, I have it, I have uh a bond already established with uh the local fire and EMS departments, you know, because of my criteria. And I've actually found that actually not to be the the case because it's harder to get into the fire departments and EMS to talk about this um and let them know there's somebody there for you. And we sent out numerous you know stuff to them to try to get them to engage. Um uh but it's been it's been tough. We're not gonna we're never gonna give up, but it's just been tougher. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Scott Cox, uh, the director founder of uh 22 until there's none got up early, come, came in, and uh here we are. We're chatting about it. Just a it's a kind of a sensitive subject, but then again, it's an important subject where the word needs to get out. I can say if you or someone you love is struggling, know that you're not alone. 22 Until There's None is here to walk beside you, to support you, and to remind you that your service matters. And to learn more, get involved, or connect with Scott and his team, just go to 22untilthere's none.net. And together they can ensure that every hero gets the care and compassion they deserve. And Scott, thank you for your service. Thank you for being you. Um, I feel like I've known you forever just after this conversation, dude. It's it's cool. Thank you. Thank you for coming in. And uh please, because uh here our radio stations in this cluster, we're all locally owned and operated. And we always say we're hometown. And we're not just saying that, we are hometown. Everybody that works here pretty much is from the area, one way or another. So it's kind of cool. So and we all have those connections. So we'd like to, you know, just put the invite out there. Feel free to call on us, whatever you need. Um, you know, me personally, I'd love to come out and do something for you. Are there any events that you have coming up for fundraising, or everything's kind of, you know, because of the seasons are changing?

SPEAKER_00:

As um, obviously, as the seasons change, um we're winding down because it's getting colder. Uh, but we do, if there's something that somebody wants us to come to, we will come to you um do an event. Uh, we're actually um setting up a uh a BA saves uh training uh at uh community bank in uh Cicero. And it's gonna be on a Wednesday. I believe it's gonna be a Wednesday night. Um but you'll be able to go on our website. We're gonna put it up on there if anybody's interested in coming to it. It's free to come uh for uh first responders or veterans or a vet organization wants to come. Um we just ask that you are SVP to it to let us know. So we have a headcount. Um, but the flyer will be up on our website, on our Facebook page uh as soon as we confirm it at the actual time of the uh event.

SPEAKER_01:

Love it. 22 until there's none.net is the website. Scott, thank you for being here today. Thank you so much for having me.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Skip Clark

Host